Thursday, May 10, 2007

Anonymous Comment

My wife posted the article that ran in the New York Times yesterday that was entitled "Prenatal Test Puts Down Syndrome in Hard Focus " as many other DS sites had. Unfortunately someone left the following anonymous comment which I deleted from her blog because she felt it was offensive. I on the other hand took the liberty of cutting and pasting it to this post. Here it is

From Anonymous

Choosing to have a retarded child is a moral atrocity. There's no way to get around the fact that Down syndrome causes suffering in everyone involved. The parents who support bringing more people burdened with this illness into the world only want to extend their and their children's suffering to everyone else. They should be named for what they are - evil.

Every child should be loved and valued - but a fetus is not a child until he or she is born - and what kind of perverted monster do you have to be to want your children to suffer their entire life? Only the religious dogma behind the hypocritical "culture of life" is capable of sinking people to this level.

Anonymous has a name now, David Veksler.
He has a website: www.rationalmind.net


I understand that this David character searched out sites that posted this article and left the same message on all of them.

He must have been mugged by a person with Down Syndrome;)

25 comments:

Jessica said...

I have his website and his email address if you'd like it. He left that same exact comment on my blog and about 10 others.

BStrong said...

Yeah, give me his website.

Jessica said...

The jerk didn't leave anonymous comment on my blog, he left his email and website and seeing that he's a political science major and loves debates, my hubby is going to have fun tonight writing him back (he was a PS major too and also he's an attorney who LOVES to debate) anyways, his URL is http://www.rationalmind.net

Michelle said...

He's just a jerk who is trying to stir up some controversy and doesn't deserve your time. He's left the same message on a lot of blogs who had that same article up yesterday. You'll never change someone's mind who is like that.

BStrong said...

Jessica and Michelle: I know, I just want to have some fun. After reading a bit about this guy, his comment doesn't bother me because he's ignorant to life.

Kim Ayres said...

Sigh. There will always be ignorant people who will never be swayed until the issue becomes up close and personal.

You know the long debate I had with SafeT and it didn't make a scrap of difference. This guy is never going to be persuaded. But if he thinks his comments are going to persuade anyone then he is completely deluded.

All he is ever going to do is generate more hate, anger and fear in the world. What a great legacy - he must be so proud

HeroicLife said...

What am I ignorant of, Kim?

Mauzy said...

oh, com'on....I like the toga picture better of you David

http://philosophy.meetup.com/156/photos/?photoAlbumId=83246&photoId=495173

Jeff said...

B

Thanks for sharing.....

David

Thanks for coming out...I will step up to the challange about your ignorance....let's take your own stance in immigration which obviosly is important to you since you came to this country for the freedom you have now that would have gotten you shot where you came from....but let's look at your quote....

I do not believe the facts I mention – the plight of oppressed peoples, the risks they take, and the productive lives they lead here are in dispute. I cannot understand what sort of irrationality, what bigotry, what idiocy would make Americans deny the very legacy their nation is founded on. As an immigrant, I sympathize with Frederick Douglass, who, like me, was a persecuted minority who escaped a slave state to embrace American values and pursue the American Dream. Unlike him, I came here legally – but I’ll be damned if any “law” was going to keep my out.

Now lets look at your specific words....I cannot understand what sort of irrationality, what bigotry, what idiocy would make Americans deny the very legacy their nation is founded on.

You condemn Americans as Irrational,bigots, and idiots...hmmm in regards to this subject David read your own words about something important to you and then realize ds is part of our world....take a look in the mirror David and realize your words fit the image in that mirror.

Peace Dude

Sara said...

It just goes to show, ignorance runs rampant! It broke my heart to read that trash..I NO WAY feel Nathaniel is a burden to anybody!!! HE is a very loved and wanted little BOY!! That guy is a total idiot!!!

Emily Elizabeth said...

Wowza, I believe those have got to be some of the cruelest and most gratuitous words I have ever read. I am simply overwhelmed by the depth of David's audacity, presuppositions, and miscomprehension. What is even more astounding than his posting such flagrant hate speech and prejudice is that he would then spam the blogs of parents raising children with Down syndrome with the hateful eugenics he has tried to justify with philosophy.

David, of the never-ending time on your hands, and of the delusional and self gratifying philosophical downward spiral, is there any chance you could at least try to maintain the smallest appearance of authority? Maybe attempt to not look like the foolish child playing on the internet and generating hits for your own your self indulgent website while mommy is at work and your bicycle is broken?

Down syndrome is not a disease. It is not an illness. An extra chromosome doesn't make one sick, nor is it progressive, degenerative, or curable. It may be associated with diseases and other maladies, but in of itself, it is a syndrome...thus the name. Not sure why this is so difficult for you to grasp, but I guess we all have our special needs, don't we? After all you are a self proclaimed greedy capitalist, sounds like a pretty big special need indeed.

I'm not suffering because my daughter has Down syndrome. She's not suffering because she has Down syndrome. The only issue of suffering is the one you are bringing with you...because you are insufferable.

Please let your mother know we pity her. But we don't blame her. Unless of course, she choose to give you life instead of just being victimized (like us) by your sudden appearance. Then, then she would be evil.

Poor David's mother. Poor David's family. All they know is the pain of being related to a self justified mental masturbator without much value or real critical thought to offer anybody...just a little trail of those horrid spandex bike pants left in the wind. But the entire time he is pedaling away he is shouting narrow minded foul little obscenities, relishing the shock value and congratulating himself for the attention.

How embarrassing.

David, just a question for you, what exactly do you mean when you identify yourself with an unconditional right to one’s life and liberty? Do you know what that means? Seriously? Do you?

Let's review what you must have slept through during correspondence college:

1 : the quality or state of being free: a : the power to do as one pleases b : freedom from physical restraint c : freedom from arbitrary or despotic control d : the positive enjoyment of various social, political, or economic rights and privileges e : the power of choice.

So how exactly is deeming all lives with an extra chromosome as innate and undeniable suffering a liberating act? How does judging those that utilize their freedom of choice to have a child with mental retardation, Down syndrome, or an other condition that makes you feel "icky" and declaring them evil incarnate follow your "dedication" to liberty.

Or by liberty, do you just mean your own? Your right to not get the heebie jeebies when someone with a cognitive disability has the audacity to leave the confines of their home where they are supposed to be suffering in silence and passes you in the park? When you have to condescend to make room in your own liberty for someone else's?

Don't be such a jackass.

Just be honest. This is all about David and your vision of the "heroic" life...one of wasted youth, togas, finger pointing, name calling, bitterness and (unfortunately for cyberspace) internet access. WooHoo. Impressive.

Hilter would be proud. Good for you.

David, you have a choice too. To be a jackass or not.

Go ahead, make the right choice.

Take off the dimestore thought police badge and go away. Far away.

Belovedlife said...

Amen , Emily Elizabeth, I could not have said it better then that! You go Girl!

Rebecca said...

((((echoing)))) what Emily said.

Rebecca said...

The toga picture is a hoot Mauzy... wow what a great guy NOT!!!

Rebecca said...

Here's another commentary created from Mr. Blog Spammer

http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=717

BStrong said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
BStrong said...

David,

Once again you are speaking of something you know nothing about. I have a child who has Down Syndrome and I still don’t know everything about it. For you to comment on the blogs of parents who have a child with DS is horrific to say the least.

I’m not sure that you quite understand why the Down Syndrome community is in an uproar over the latest testing. Are parents of children with DS and others who are compassionate towards Down Syndrome “Pro Down Syndrome”? In a sense yes, but to say that we want or hope that more babies are born with DS is completely ridiculous. Every parent including families that have a child with DS prays that there child is born typical. Now, when my wife gave birth to our third child Amanda, would I have wanted Amanda to be a typical child? Yes. Do I wish now that she was born typical? No, she wouldn’t be my Amanda then. If being Pro Down Syndrome is defined by fighting for the human rights of our children and making sure that they are given the same opportunities that typical children are given, then yes, I am Pro Down Syndrome. BUT, if Pro Down Syndrome suggests that I hope and pray that more pregnancies result in a child with DS, you are sadly mistaken.

Let’s stop here for a sec. You are obviously pro choice, fine. So this can be categorized as a pro choice / pro life discussion, but you are turning into something else. I suppose that once you are married and decide to have children, if that’s in the cards, you will make sure that your wife has every single available test done on her and the baby to ensure that your idea of a perfect child which is obviously someone like you is living inside her. God help us all. That said, if you don’t like the test results, you’re going to keep on aborting the pregnancy until you’re happy. Good luck finding a woman that will do that for you.

Moving on……..

To say that kids/adults with Down Syndrome are suffering and are not well suited for life boggles my mind and reflects your ignorance. I’m not even sure what “well suited for life means”. Just because a child is born with DS doesn’t mean that they are unhealthy or going to suffer for the rest of their lives. It just means that our kids aren’t typical run of the mill kids. They may look a bit different, act a bit different and do things at their own pace, but it doesn’t mean that they are unhealthy or suffering. A child who happens to have Down Syndrome will not have an IQ of 160, and according to your statements, that child is sick and will suffer for the rest of their lives. Does that mean that if there was a test for expecting mothers that predicts the IQ of their baby, every mother should have it done? Now, what if the results didn’t meet the parent’s expectations? Is that a good reason to terminate the pregnancy?

Please, before you comment on something make sure you have your facts straight. Everyone knew they were in for a ride when they saw that you referred to DS as a disease.

DOWN SYNDROME IS NOT A DISEASE! Or is it? Don’t stand to close to a person with DS, you might catch it, eeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwww.

Oh, and kudos to all the comments, including yours David

David, it seems that you have been stricken with a horrible disease called "Talking Out of Your Ass Disease". It sounds painful and may not be well suited for life..........anyone got a needle?:)

Tracey said...

Wow. I don't know that I have the words to compare to the brilliance of the other commenters here, but I would like to try.

I must say, that the first thing that came to mind after reading David's comments, and the thing that won't leave my mind, is the Nazi party. His strict and harsh views on choosing to continue a pregnancy after a DS diagnosis sounds extremely similar to their views on wiping out any groups in the population that weren't what the Nazi party wanted. I won't use the term "normal" or "perfect" because, obviously, there was something terribly wrong with THEIR genetic dispositions to consider genocide as a GOOD CHOICE. And David's opinions are, I believe, genocide - at the earliest possible stage.

What's next? Aborting babies if their genetic disposition says that they MAY contract cancer someday? That they have a bigger chance at becoming drug dependent? Or how about children that were exposed to drugs and alcohol in utero? They can have some serious mental and physical impairments as well. Shall we just wipe out every single baby that doesn't meet YOUR criteria?

I don't have a child with DS. I don't know the joys and heartaches that must go along with it. But I can EMPATHIZE with those parents and children because I am a HUMAN BEING and can recognize that they are HUMAN BEINGS too. Though I have my doubts about people like David, I will try to believe that there is still some smidgen of humanity in them.

Mostly, I am sad for the parents who are going through the diagnosis process right now, and may chance upon such writings as his. I pray that they, instead, come upon the phone numbers or websites of parents that have survived and loved children with DS, so that they may choose without regrets, pressure or misconstrued ideals of how the human race is supposed to be.

Kim Ayres said...

Strange that David decided to ask me what he was ignorant of on your blog rather than contacting me personally.

On the vaguest offchance that he ever comes back here and reads any of the comments - all of which show very clearly a whole host of misassumptions David makes - I would happily debate with him if I thought for one moment he was truly open to it.

David is not interested in learning about DS; he is not open to the idea that he could be persuaded to think othewise; and he is certainly not open to empathy.

All he his interested in is his own ego and gaining a perverse pleasure from upsetting as many people as he can.

He is a sad individual and all I really feel for him is pity.

Jeff said...

Hey Gang

Damn proud of all or your articulate responses. I am sure the debate has become way to calm and professional for our friend.

Glad I know many of you.

PEACE

amy flege said...

oh , i think i will stay out of this one. but i am proud of all of you for doing what you do for our kiddos!!! hugs!

Tara Marie said...

“To be ignorant of one's ignorance is the malady of the ignorant.” ~Alcott

L. Noelle said...

Thanks for posting this! I love idiots like this. It gives me a chance to vent! He's just that kid in class who got beat up, picked on, made fun of and humilated. He's the guy who had every girl turn him down in high school, trust me, I know plenty of morons just like him! So now, he's going to try and get everyone back! I've met a million people just like him, the problem is, these guys are usually too cowardly to face anyone in person!

HeroicLife said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
HeroicLife said...

I've posted a response to your comments here:

http://www.rationalmind.net/?p=1072